One of Britain's youngest peers, Lord Karan Bilimoria speaks to The Indian Express Editor-in-Chief Shekhar Gupta about how he created Cobra beer brand, why he loves public life and the reason he continues to stay close to India. Excerpts from NDTV 24X7's Walk the Talk.
We have all heard the expression that one shouldn't carry coal to Newcastle, but you did precisely that and when you were barely a graduate … Tell us the story you have told a million times before. How did Cobra beer come about?
I have always loved beer and when I went to England as a student, I used to go to Indian restaurants and pubs a lot. And I found that I really didn't like the fizzy lagers, found them very gassy, fizzy, bland, bloating. But I loved the English ale, English Bitter, very smooth and easy to drink. But I found that Bitter was very difficult to drink with food. It was too heavy and too bitter. And the fizzy lagers were awful with food as well. So that's when the idea evolved as a student at Cambridge: Why don't I come up with a beer that has the refreshment of a lager and the smoothness of an ale combined? That's the idea of a Cobra beer. A very simple idea.
From a young Bawa boy, if I may say so, a brewery version of dhansak … to throw in daal and meat together …
What a good way of putting it! Dhansak is one of my favourite dishes. And Hyderabadi biryani. These are my two favourite all-time dishes.
Because you were brought up in Hyderabad, an Osmania University boy … And then the beer became a rage because you figured that British people like beer and curry was catching on ...
Indian food is so popular in Britain that there are over 10,000 Indian restaurants. Over two-thirds of those are Bangladeshi… They all serve Indian food. Indian food is now a way of life in Britain. Everyone goes to Indian restaurants. People cook Indian food at home. The supermarkets, all sell Indian ingredients. And the most popular drink with Indian food is beer. The Indian restaurants have been our base. Now we also sell in all the supermarkets, Sainsbury's and Tesco and Waitrose, we are increasingly getting into pubs and we export around the world.
And the way you started … the back of a car, literally.
A Citroen DutchEVo, bright-green, battered; cost 295 pounds. We had to push start it everyday. Eventually it failed its roadworthiness test so we had to abandon it. But it could carry 15 cases of Cobra. You could see the road if you were driving through the holes in the floor of the car. And that's how we started, door-to-door to restaurants, selling the beer.
And then it caught up.
People love the beer. I'm proud to say we have won over 70 gold medals since 2001.
You nearly went broke during the economic downturn.
Three times we nearly lost the business. The last time was four and a half years ago… It was really a few things that came together. One, unlike the new governor of the Reserve Bank of India, we didn't predict the financial crisis. He is one of the only people in the world who did.
And Nouriel Roubini (the American economist).
Two of them, yes.
He has still been predicting the same crisis. Not our governor.
Well, very few predicted the crisis … We were highly geared, we had too much debt. We were very, very lucky that we formed a joint venture with Molson Coors, one of the largest brewers in the world, and we rescued the business.
You tried many things … Polo sticks. Because the ones coming from Argentina stopped because of the Falklands War.
I captained the first-ever Cambridge University polo tour of India. And that year we had beaten Oxford. Rajiv Gandhi was the prime minister then and he had been to Cambridge, and he welcomed us.
People don't realise that you are very young, 51.
That tour was fantastic and I came back with some sticks that I was going to use in England to play. And the stickmaker said, 'Why don't you sell some of them for us?'. And I sold them to Harrods and Lillywhites. I was in business.
What else did you sell?
We used to bring in high-fashion garments. They did very well as well.
So how did public life happen? You are very young to be a Lord.
Well, the average age of the members of the House of Lords is almost 70 years. When I joined, I was 44 years old. I was one of the handful of youngest peers. I still am I suppose.
In public life, you are accountable now for the phone calls you make, about who you have lunch with, about who you date, if you date …
I really enjoy being in the House of Lords. It's a great privilege. I am an independent Crossbench Peer, so that's also a great position to be in because I don't have to toe any party line, I'm not whipped in to vote, I'll vote every issue, issue by issue, how I feel about that particular issue. I can say what I want to. I can challenge government, criticise government, support government … I love it so much that I have to say, 'No you can't get more involved because you've got your business as well'. Because I love my business as well.
How do you compare British parliamentary politics with ours? Because you haven't got cut off from India, you are very rooted.
I feel equally at home in both countries. I come to India seven-eight times a year. When you look at our parliamentary systems, they are very similar: Upper House, Lower House, Rajya Sabha, Lok Sabha, House of Commons, House of Lords. But we never have disruptions or adjournments. We sit for almost 150 days in a year.
And your prime minister speaks almost every day.
Well, definitely every week, but regularly. Also the House of Lords is a sort of a guardian of the nation, as a check and balance. The public listens, and the Commons listens (to us).
But you continue to be rooted in India. In fact, now in a state which has had the messiest politics in India — Bihar.
Yes. We own the only brewery in Bihar.
What got you, a smart businessman, to set up a brewery in Bihar? You would have to be nuts …
I started Cobra not by putting it on the supermarket shelves straightaway, not by going to the pubs straightaway, I started by building a strong foundation in Indian restaurants. Similarly, over here, when everyone was ignoring Bihar, I saw that there has been a change in the past six or seven years through governance, the state has been turned around and it's growing. Crime has come down six times in six years. Someone has got to go there and believe in the future of a state of a 100 million people, a state with so much history. And I think we made the right decision.
You had no connection with Bihar, no family connection. Were there postings …?
Connections were there … When he retired, my father was the Commander-in-Chief of the Central Indian Army. Bihar came under his command. We grew up with Bihari troops who served my father. My father was ADC to Rajendra Prasad. When they got married, my parents lived in the Rashtrapati Bhavan when Prasad was the president.
But these connections were not strong enough to draw you to Bihar. Did someone tell you to go to Bihar or was it just idealism?
I believe that in India, the economy is going to continue to grow regardless of the blips it is going through. I think the trajectory is definitely one of huge opportunity. People still ask, 'A brewery in Bihar? Are you sure?'. People go as far as saying, 'Have you got armed guards? Have you got kidnapping insurance?'… I feel completely safe there. And I have complete faith that that state has been turned around.
Do you get to see Chief Minister Nitish Kumar often?
I see him from time to time. And I've been very impressed by what he has done … I found him to be somebody who's very genuinely interested and wanting to learn. He has a very calm manner and has a great sense of humour as well. That's why I like him. But also there is a very serious undertone. He knows exactly what he wants to do.
You talked about your father being the general officer commanding-in-chief, Central Army Command. But I remembered him recently in a completely different context. I was writing a series on the war in Sri Lanka, IPKF, and I suddenly realised that Lt Gen Faridoon Bilimoria, who was sent by V P Singh to Sri Lanka to study the situation and who recommended that the IPKF be brought back and who effectively brought back the IPKF, was your illustrious father.
I remember that so clearly. I was in England and he told me, he phoned me, 'Look, just to let you know I'm going to Sri Lanka'. I was genuinely worried as a son for his safety. And within a very short while he made the decision that the troops needed to be withdrawn.
I can add a factoid that the Sri Lankan Army lost nine officers of the rank of general or its equivalent in that war.
His words at that time were 'This is becoming another Vietnam. We must get out of here. Our troops are getting killed by the hundreds. This cannot go on'. And he made the right decision. Similarly, I remember when the Iraq War happened in 2003, he happened to be in England that summer on a visit and at an event, a prominent journalist in the UK got hold of my father and said, 'General, do you think that we should have intervened in Iraq?'. And my father, without blinking, said, 'Absolutely not. We shouldn't have intervened without the United Nations' approval.' And he was so right. Look at what has happened since.
And you used lines from your father to make your point on Syria.
Yes. Parliament was recalled in Britain just last month and we all came in and 75 of us spoke in the House of Lords. It was one of the best debates I have ever spoken in. And this is where the House of Lords is so wonderful — it has so much expertise in every field. So, in this debate, we had former chiefs of the defence staff, former generals, admirals, former defence ministers and foreign ministers, people like Douglas Hurd, legends speaking. 71 out of 75 of us said, 'We should not intervene now'. And as the debate was winding up, at around 11 o' clock at night, we got news from the House of Commons that the government had been defeated.
So, your father was in the Army, your grandfather went to Sandhurst, your grandfather from your mother's side flew for the Royal Indian Air Force. With that kind of fauji blood, you should have been making rum. Why beer?
(Laughs) I make a wine which I named after my father, General Bilimoria Wines. And he never charged me a royalty!
Because the drink of the Indian Army is rum. Will you do it at some point because that could be an Indian speciality?
Thank you for the suggestion.
May be I'll charge you a royalty …
Free supply for life!
But did the family joke about this? One, you becoming a proper Brit because you are from a very rooted, desi, patriotic Indian family, and second, about becoming a businessman and not a soldier.
I remember when I started Cobra, my father was in Lucknow and had become Commander-in-Chief of the Central Army. In those days the Indian Army got paid very badly. At my wedding day speech, I remember my father said, 'I never had to dissuade my sons from joining the Army. All I did was show them my pay cheque'. So I said, 'No financial support from my father, but at least some emotional support…?'. When I used to go, 'Dad, look I've started my own business, Cobra beer'. He'd say, 'What are you doing? All this education! And you are becoming an import and export wallah. Get a proper job'.
Of course, once Cobra did start to succeed, my father was my greatest supporter.
Did he like the beer?
He loved it. And I was very happy that although I never joined the Army, before my father passed away, he saw me in uniform because the Queen appointed me deputy lieutenant. So he saw me in uniform and he presented my grandfather's broken Wilkinson Sword from Sandhurst to me.
You head the UK India Business Council now. Have you had disappointments on the way or do you think we are getting there?
I was appointed in 2003 by the British government to revive the Indo-British partnership. We revived it and, after Manmohan Singh and Tony Blair, the two prime ministers, had the first ever UK-India Investment Summit in London in 2006, we realised how much more we could do as two countries and set up the UK India Business Council, of which I am the founding chair. I'm delighted with some of the progress, but I always say that we are scratching the surface. And there are great success stories both ways. I practise what I preach. Look at JCB. You can't drive anywhere in India without seeing a JCB.
It's a huge success in India, manufactured in India and run by Indians. My team at Cobra is run a hundred per cent by Indians. And, similarly, looking the other way, I'm very proud in the UK to drive a Jaguar, owned by the Tatas… So, it's happening both ways. Vodafone coming over here. I want more and more small- and medium-size enterprises.
Vodafone might have a few complaints ...
I think that retrospective tax sent alarm bells around the world but hopefully that situation will be resolved soon.
Another issue that had a bit of a shadow over our relationship is the Narendra Modi issue. Did you agree with the ban on him earlier, the boycott and then the fact that the UK took the lead in making that 'pilgrimage' to Ahmedabad.
The South Asian community overall makes up just 4 per cent of the British population, but they contribute double that to the economy. So I am very, very proud of the success of the Asian community. Indians are getting to the top in every field in Britain, whether it's business, Parliament, sports, the arts. And a big part of the Indian community is the Gujarati community. For them, the fact that we didn't have any relations with the state of Gujarat was a matter of huge issue. So I am very happy that we are dealing with Gujarat, one of the most successful states in India.
But do you think the UK took too long?
It could have happened earlier, but it's happened. That's the main thing.
We might have our editorial view on Modi — and god knows we have not been kind to him — but the idea that somebody elected to a constitutional position in a sovereign democracy would be denied visa, which is the right of every citizen, by foreign countries, on account of something that happened internally in India, is obscene.
You know Gujarat to me is obviously a state for which I have a very soft spot because it was Gujarat that gave refuge to Parsis when we escaped from Persia a thousand years ago.
I have been to Persepolis so I know what happened to human rights …
So, when there was forced conversion in Persia, we fled to India to seek refuge… And the Gujarati king said 'I'm sorry I have no room for you'. So the leader of the Parsis said, 'Please let us in. Let me illustrate how we'll be in your kingdom'. He asked for a cup of milk to be filled to the brim and he asked for a teaspoon of sugar. He immersed the sugar in the cup of milk without spilling a drop and said, 'We'll be like the sugar. We'll sweeten your kingdom'. ..
Anywhere I go in India, everyone knows who a Parsi is and, invariably, they think well of my tiny little community. And per capita of achievement, I'd say, it's the most successful community in the world.
Field Marshal Manekshaw always used to say, 'If anybody has seen a non-rich Parsi, bring him to me. I'll tell him to get his head examined'.
What I am also proud of is that it's always put back not only into its own community, but into the wider community.
So what do you see yourself doing in Britain now? More business, more politics, or do we see you crossing the moat one side or the other?
The best place I am in is to be an independent Crossbench Peer … So I'm not going to be tempted to become a minister or join a party. Where the business is concerned, my mission was to brew the finest ever Indian beer and to make it a global beer brand. The first part of it, we have done by miles. But on the second part, which is to make it a global beer brand — we're sold in about 40 countries around the world — we have still got a long way to go.
Why the name Cobra? Why not something more pleasant?
We're a very friendly Cobra.
Kingfisher and Cobra, just think …
Cobra is a very powerful creature, a creature that's respected. And we never show a cobra in any of our advertising. We never show it on the packaging. It's in a respectful way, a name that is short and sharp and powerful and punchy and memorable.
Transcribed by Nawaid Anjum
courtesy : “The Indian Express”, Tuesday, October 22, 2013
નહોતા એ સર્જક, નહોતા વિવેચક, નહોતા અધ્યાપક, અરે! એ પત્રકાર પણ નહોતા. અને છતાં ગુજરાતી ભાષાને એકવીસમી સદીમાં લઇ જવા માટે તેમણે એ સૌ કરતાં વધુ પુરુષાર્થ કર્યો. એમનું નામ રતિલાલ ચંદરિયા. ૧૯૨૨ના ઓક્ટોબરની ૨૪મી તારીખે નાયરોબીમાં જન્મ. ગયે અઠવાડિયે ૧૩મી ઓક્ટોબરે અવસાન. કોલેજનો અભ્યાસ પણ પૂરો કર્યો નહોતો. કુટુંબનો ધંધો સંભાળીને તેને ખૂબ વિકસાવ્યો, ઉદ્યોગપતિ બન્યા. દુનિયાના ૬૨ દેશોમાં તેમની કોઈ ને કોઈ કંપનીની શાખા છે. પણ એમની શાખ તો પ્રસરેલી છે જ્યાં જ્યાં વસે એક ગુજરાતી ત્યાં ત્યાં. ખાસ્સી મોટી ઉંમરે તેઓ પ્રેમમાં પડયા – ના, ના. કોઈ વ્યક્તિના પ્રેમમાં નહિ, કમ્પ્યુટરના પ્રેમમાં. બીજાની થોડી અને પોતાની ઝાઝી મહેનતથી કમ્પ્યુટર વાપરતા થયા. પણ સ્ક્રીન પર બધું અંગ્રેજીમાં જ જોવા મળે, એ જમાનામાં. રતિભાઈને થયું : મારી ગુજરાતી ભાષા કમ્પ્યુટરના સ્ક્રીન પર કેમ નહિ? આજે તો માન્યામાં ન આવે તેવા ખાંખાંખોળાં કર્યાં, મથામણો કરી, પરસેવો પાડ્યો. પણ ધીમે ધીમે સાથીઓ મળતા ગયા. દિશા સૂઝવા લાગી. અને જન્મ થયો ‘ગુજરાતીલેક્સિકન ડૉટ કોમ’નો. આપણી ભાષાનો પહેલો ઓનલાઈન શબ્દકોશ. કોઈ પણ ગુજરાતી શબ્દની જોડણી જાણવા, અર્થ જાણવા, તેનો અંગ્રેજી પર્યાય શોધવા હવે મોટાં મોટાં થોથાં ઉથલાવવાની જરૂર નથી રહી. માઉસની એક ક્લિક કરો, જોઈતી જોડણી, અર્થ, પર્યાય જાણો. કહેવાય છે કે સંતોષી નાર સદા સુખી. પણ રતિભાઈનો જીવ જરા ય સંતોષી નહિ. એક ડીક્ષનરીથી કેમ ચાલે? ગુજરાતીનો સૌથી મોટો, સર્વગ્રાહી શબ્દકોશ કયો? ભગવદ્ગોમંડળ કોશ. તે આખેઆખો તેમણે મૂકાવી દીધો વેબસાઈટ પર. પછી પણ વખતો વખત તેમાં નવો ને નવો ઉમેરો થતો જ ગયો છે. હજી થોડા દિવસ પહેલાં જ, તિથિ લેખે રતિભાઈના જન્મ દિવસે ‘જંબલ-ફંબલ’ નામની રસપ્રદ કહેવત–રમત અને ગુજરાતી સુવિચારો ઉપરાંત ગુજરાતી-જાપાનીઝ અને ગુજરાતી-ચાઈનીઝ શબ્દકોશની મોબાઇલ ઍપ્લિકેશન રજૂ કરવામાં આવી છે.